[quadzilla]

A lot of gas stations around here have 15% ethonol in gas. Will it matter, also they have E85. E85 is 100 octane, can i run this without any problems?

 

[usedtobeadmin]

A lot of gas stations around here have 15% ethonol in gas. Will it matter, also they have E85. E85 is 100 octane, can i run this without any problems?
[/b]

15% ethanol in gas and you will be fine.....


E85=no

 

[Morgan]

E85 is 85% Ethanol. Big no-no for the LTR. My drag TRX runs on E85 and defintely takes a dyno to set up on a carb bike.

 

[Luckiduc13]

It is definately ok to run the 15% Ethanol. More than likely its not even 15%, they must advertise that because that is the maximum percentage before you have to reclassify it. The purpose of it was that in lab testing, some dude said the previous gasoline additives were carciginic, so some states banned it, thus the 15% ethenol additive. The general public will never see a difference in performance or efficientcy. Now as the E85...I see it being a good thing for racing engines. E85 is 112-115 octane. The downfall we see is the lack of MPG you will get in a vehicle, but us racers dont care. I work at a Fuel Terminal in Meridian, MS and we are not mandated, as of yet, to inject the ethanol. Hope this helps.

 

[Morgan]

E85 is closer to 105 octane.

 

[kheft]

Ethanol all in all actually packs less force in its explosion then gasoline. But since there is Oxygen in the molecule it allows you to use more ethanol at one, therefore producing more power. The only problem with straight ethanol is that it is may corrode the seals in your motor, which is why they have E85, or 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline. Many people run ethanol because is burns clean and it is just alcohol made from corn(Ethanol otherwise known as Moonshine), so its cheaper. You can easily make it with the proper licence as along as you put something like gasoline to make it undrinkable. The only downfall for ethanol is gas milage drops because you burn 1.5-2x more for it to run right. Which is why you have to buy a differnt carb or have your modified to fit big enough jets to run ethanol. In the long run, since ethanol is cheaper to make, it makes up for the lost gas milage. Also, since ethanol has a high flash point, it is equivalent to high octane race gas.

The higher the octane, then higher the flash point, meaning you can run more advanced timing and your motor runs cooler. This is why in you use high octane to keep a high compression motor from detonating. Timing is usually after TDC. On a high compression motor gas with a low octane rating(lets say 93) would explode before the pistion gets to TDC causing detonation. Therefore you use something like 110 which has a higher flash point allowing it to explode after TDC.

The Structual Formula for Ethanol is: (DONT WORRY ABOUT THE DOTS)
......H...H
......|....|
H - C - C - OH
......|....|
......H...H
The molecule has oxygen in it.

Gasoline is basically: (without all the additives)
......H...H...H....H....H....H...H...H
......|....|....|.....|....|....|.....|....|
H - C - C - C - C - C - C - C - C - H
......|....|....|.....|....|....|.....|....|
......H...H...H....H....H....H...H...H
No Oxygen, just 8 Carbons.

Most GM car computers now automatically compensate for E85, which is why your gas station has it. (I am not 100% sure on Ford, Chrysler, Honda, ect.)

 

[Morgan]

Ethanol all in all actually packs less force in its explosion then gasoline. But since there is Oxygen in the molecule it allows you to use more ethanol at one, therefore producing more power. The only problem with straight ethanol is that it is may corrode the seals in your motor, which is why they have E85, or 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline. Many people run ethanol because is burns clean and it is just alcohol made from corn(Ethanol otherwise known as Moonshine), so its cheaper. You can easily make it with the proper licence as along as you put something like gasoline to make it undrinkable. The only downfall for ethanol is gas milage drops because you burn 1.5-2x more for it to run right. Which is why you have to buy a differnt carb or have your modified to fit big enough jets to run ethanol. In the long run, since ethanol is cheaper to make, it makes up for the lost gas milage. Also, since ethanol has a high flash point, it is equivalent to high octane race gas.

The higher the octane, then higher the flash point, meaning you can run more advanced timing and your motor runs cooler. This is why in you use high octane to keep a high compression motor from detonating. Timing is usually after TDC. On a high compression motor gas with a low octane rating(lets say 93) would explode before the pistion gets to TDC causing detonation. Therefore you use something like 110 which has a higher flash point allowing it to explode after TDC.

The Structual Formula for Ethanol is: (DONT WORRY ABOUT THE DOTS)
......H...H
......|....|
H - C - C - OH
......|....|
......H...H
The molecule has oxygen in it.

Gasoline is basically: (without all the additives)
......H...H...H....H....H....H...H...H
......|....|....|.....|....|....|.....|....|
H - C - C - C - C - C - C - C - C - H
......|....|....|.....|....|....|.....|....|
......H...H...H....H....H....H...H...H
No Oxygen, just 8 Carbons.

Most GM car computers now automatically compensate for E85, which is why your gas station has it. (I am not 100% sure on Ford, Chrysler, Honda, ect.)
[/b]

Very well said. Also known as a "flex fuel" for GM cars that will run off E85 or regular gas. It burns closest to 1.7 times faster then regular fuel.

 

[kheft]

Thanks for fixing that, I want sure on the exact number. I just knew it was around there.

 

[SandJunkie]

I told you it was rocket science

All kidding aside...that was an extremely informative thread

 

[Morgan]

Here is a graph of my hill TRX to show how stable E85 is. It makes great power and it a cheap alternative to race gas.

 

[kheft]

I pinned this that way it does not get lost. (My lazy side also tells me that it was not fun typing thoes structual formulas)

 

[MXQuadRacer]

I moved this thread to the important information forum, to keep too many stickys away from each respective forum. Just my personal thoughts, it's just really easy to reference one specific forum for important information and all new members can come here to make sure they are up to date.

A+ thread with awesome information regarding technology that honestly is relatively new to me. Especially the structural formula's, awesome information! I absolutely love this site

 

[kheft]

I wanted to do that, but I was having a bit of trouble doing so. It wouldn't cooperate with me. lol

Also, just incase anyone ever thought about it. The structual formula for Nitromethane, otherwise know as nitro or top fuel, is:
[attachmentid=95]
Sorry, I did not feel like opening up photoshop

- For thoes who don't know much about chemistry, there is two lines signifing a double bond. This is why they use Nitromethane in funnycars and top fuel dragsters. Everyone thinks they are high tech, but their just a 8.5L hemi 426 with a huge blower running on nitromethane. Just like ethanol, the oxygen atom in the molecule allows there to be more of the fuel in the combustion chamber. One can fit 8.7x more nitromethane in the motor, then gasoline. This is why the top fuelers are lucky if the motor makes the 100second run (startup, burnout, quarter mile mark). This is also why they push out about 6000hp. Actually, nitromethane could burn with no oxygen present.
- People also ask the question: How do they cool the motor? I do not see a radiator.
The answer also, is the fuel. Put rubbing alcohol on your hand. It will feel cold. The reason it feels cold it because the when the alcohol evaporates it takes heat away from your hand. Well, the evaporation of the nitromethane cools the motor also. (There is about 42 fuel injectors to get all of the fuel in the motor.) You can compare the about of fuel going into one cylinder to your average household hose.

...and just a quick fact, nitromethane is about 30$/gal and a top fueler/funny car uses 92gal/min, so you do the math. Its about $5,000/run for just fuel and parts (if they have a flawless run. lol)

Hah, sorry for rambling on about that. I just think its pretty cool stuff. HUH?

 

[SandJunkie]

Yes but...where does the cowbell come in?

 

[Morgan]

I wanted to do that, but I was having a bit of trouble doing so. It wouldn't cooperate with me. lol

Also, just incase anyone ever thought about it. The structual formula for Nitromethane, otherwise know as nitro or top fuel, is:
[attachmentid=95]
Sorry, I did not feel like opening up photoshop

- For thoes who don't know much about chemistry, there is two lines signifing a double bond. This is why they use Nitromethane in funnycars and top fuel dragsters. Everyone thinks they are high tech, but their just a 8.5L hemi 426 with a huge blower running on nitromethane. Just like ethanol, the oxygen atom in the molecule allows there to be more of the fuel in the combustion chamber. One can fit 8.7x more nitromethane in the motor, then gasoline. This is why the top fuelers are lucky if the motor makes the 100second run (startup, burnout, quarter mile mark). This is also why they push out about 6000hp. Actually, nitromethane could burn with no oxygen present.
- People also ask the question: How do they cool the motor? I do not see a radiator.
The answer also, is the fuel. Put rubbing alcohol on your hand. It will feel cold. The reason it feels cold it because the when the alcohol evaporates it takes heat away from your hand. Well, the evaporation of the nitromethane cools the motor also. (There is about 42 fuel injectors to get all of the fuel in the motor.) You can compare the about of fuel going into one cylinder to your average household hose.

...and just a quick fact, nitromethane is about 30$/gal and a top fueler/funny car uses 92gal/min, so you do the math. Its about $5,000/run for just fuel and parts (if they have a flawless run. lol)

Hah, sorry for rambling on about that. I just think its pretty cool stuff. HUH?
[/b]

Good info as well. 61.2 cubic inches in a liter. So an 8.5 would be close to a 520CI motor.

Please members do not take this info as you can or should run a bike on Nitro. Its a very tough game, trust me on that one. But great info none the less.

 

[kheft]

Yes, you cannot run nitro in your quad. lol They replace half the motor every run quarter mile pass. I just think its pretty cool stuff so I decided to share what I have read.

 

[Morgan]

Yes, you cannot run nitro in your quad. lol They replace half the motor every run quarter mile pass. I just think its pretty cool stuff so I decided to share what I have read.
[/b]

We have had our drag TRX on 20% before .

The specific gravity and percentages in the AZ sun change to much for it to be anywhere near consistent. Start off at 20% and wind up at 50% simply due to heat. :blink: