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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm curious. Of those of you that are going to be getting a LT-R450 or are at least thinking about it...

Who has experience with EFI?

Where did you learn what you know about EFI? School? Working on cars? Working on motorcycles???

What is the coolest thing you've worked on with EFI?

I just thought it would be a good way to kick off the EFI area, and give us something to discuss until people start getting quads.
 

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It would be cool is suzuki gives you some nice diagnostic hardware and mapping programs for you to play around with the bike?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Cool, glad to see there are some other quad folks out there that know EFI.

It's great that Suzuki is selling a racing ATV with EFI before they are even selling a MX bike with it! To me, it really shows the level of commitment that the ATV OEMs are now giving the ATVs.

The great thing about this quad is how race ready it is...right off the showroom floor.

And the great thing about EFI is that you won't need to re-jet for temperature and altitude/barometric pressure...it will be monitoring those parameters and adjusting for them even while your riding it.

It's a great time to be riding & racing a quad! :D
 

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the whole EFI thing can go two ways...either really good or really bad.

The really bad way can be taken from the path that Yamaha took with the Raptor. What I mean by this is that they won't allow you to modify any of the settings, the AFR, the idle, the 'map' for the power curve etc. If Suzuki allows you to purchase modification software without voiding the factory warranty, then I think we are in for a real treat. If they don't, then there will either be a lot of voided warranties, or a lot of pissed off consumers.

I think Cannondale had the right approach in giving all of the tools to tweak the bike how you saw fit when it came to EFI. The diagnostic tools, the ECU mapping ability, etc. made it very customizable to a rider's preferences.

Another note about this, I am anxious to see if Suzuki is doing true EFI, or if they are doing EFI by just spraying the fuel into a carb type mechanism. I hope they are spraying the fuel straight into the chamber, unlike Yamaha.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
...Another note about this, I am anxious to see if Suzuki is doing true EFI, or if they are doing EFI by just spraying the fuel into a carb type mechanism. I hope they are spraying the fuel straight into the chamber, unlike Yamaha...
Port fuel injection is what is typically used in gasoline engines. The fuel injector is directed to spray fuel into the intake port. Port injection is used on just about every car since the mid 1990's. Also, bikes such as the TL1000S, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR and many others have used it for quite a while. The Cannondale/ATK and Raptor 700 quads use this style.

"Spraying the fuel straight into the chamber" is called direct injection. It is basically just used in diesel engines. Direct injection requires fuel pressures in the thousands of PSI. It caould be used to improve power and respons but I would consider it primarily used as an emmisions and fuel economy benifit. There might be a few mass produced automotive engines that use Gasoline Direct Injection. But, I REALLY doubt that it would be applied to any bike or quad for quite a long time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sorry, just re-read my post and it sounds a little harsh...I'm not trying to be mean at all...Just explaining the difference. :cheers: :)

So reading the Suziki website it sounds like the LTR450 has a 42mm throttle body, that should be good for quite a bit of power. :D Good stuff!!
 

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They better let us be able to modify everything, or we'll be waiting for the first aftermarket ECU.
 

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i learned every thing i know about efi working on cars... 20+yrs Ford,GM,and Chrysler certified
any one that thinks carbs are easier to tune might like to know its exactley the opposite ...
from my experience there is alot more you can do with fuel injection provided the manufacturer put in the features into thier module.. so time will tell about the ltr system but personaly i'd rather spend 300 on an after market control module thats tunable than have to play around with jetting
 

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also for you guys who kno alot about EFI.... will you need to adjust or do anything to the EFI when you put a pipe on it.. bore it.. ETC. i just dont want to get all this stuff then the bike not run right.. any other input on any positives or negatives to having EFI please let me kno... AIM- shiftkx10057
 

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it all depends on the system.. for example if the suzuki system is designed to richen the mixture over base for more than 3% then you should be able to pipe without mods .. but for big bores and opening the intake then more than likely aroun d10% or so.. most factory computers due to EPA will run on the lean side so more than likley itll have to be chipped or replaced if the yosh system above will be available for ltr450 then it'll be one of my first upgrades... even before a pipe or opening up the air filter...
from everything i have read it sounds like a throtle body unit.. i maybe wrong because there is very little info out so far..
if thats the case ..a manifold pressure sensor will be one of the main inputes.. i know it has a throttle positon sensor.. the rest well find out as we go.. if we are lucky suzuki will put in a big window for fuel and timing adj into the stock processor
keep in mind there are alot of laws and regulations that keep the manufacturers from making thier systems adjustable..
i don't know if these will apply to atvs...
 

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I read in an article about the dealer show where it was introduced that Yoshimura is almost finished with a chip upgrade for a more aggressive timing curve. Hopefully they will have a kit complete with their full exhaust by the time the LTR450 actually hits the showroom floors.
 

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check out this yosh system for street bikes man i hope they will make one that works with the ltr450
http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/ems.asp
http://www.off-road.com/atv/reviews/quads/2006ltr450/tech/ECM2
I asked a few of my local dealers about this...they all gave me a completely different response. So I now feel more knowledgeable, yet more confused at the same time. First place I asked about modding fuel system, stated that he was unsure on how the policy worked. While he said that it would void the warranty - he was unsure of whether it would be on solely fuel-related parts, or whether it would be all-together. But then went on to say that the dealers are the one's who have to go over and submit warranty breakage claims so that it may change from dealer to dealer as well. With a decently clear answer, yet somewhat confused, I went on to the next.

The next dealership was completely aware of the modifications that can easily be done to street-bike motors, and responded straight out that even if the fuel settings were clearly changed, he'd still live up to the SHORT 6-month warranty anyways, and still replace all parts that malfunction.

Went on and got more of the same story from a few other dealers, most that were just clueless.

All ended up saying that the only real factory warrant Suzuki gave would be a 6-month warranty, which they said is basically worthless anyways (wouldnt' call it that personally), and a 6-month wait to modify fuel-system would not be a long wait at all. Now, for many that's half of the race season - who decides to risk it, we'll have to say. That'll have to be a decision left up to the consumer. God bless the USA
 

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how does that work on a bike motor like this? I've been rom tuning for about 3 months now and have a full stand alone ECU in my car (Apexi Power FC). Are they basicly 2D maps with only throttle position and rev on the maps?

what does it use since it has no O2 sensor, MAP/MAF, or knock sensors?


And the nice thing about them making a chip, means that anyone with little skill will be able to copy read and modify that chip further once the map addresses are figured out or some tuning software hits the street.
 

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Fuel System

It is gonna be a 42mm throttle body since its just a throttle body i dont see y u cant by the RMZ450 ignition and carb and wiring a put a carb on it im good friends with the mechanic at my local dealer and he said he can prolly do it so im gonna have him try on mine when i get it.
 

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why would you ever want to do that?! you will not make nearly the amount of power as the EFI system!!!
 
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