[Baracudaaa]

I work right around the corner from the Yoshi HQ in Chino and strolled over there to get a C/B. After they handed it over, they said you MUST use a minimum of 50% race gas otherwise you WILL run into very lean conditions. They also post 'with race fuel' on every add they run for the cherry bomb, trying to let everyone know, although it isnt in the instructions at all.
I run into their people sometimes at lunch around the area and they are all very pumped up about the 450r, and have been involved in early devolopement with Suzuki since the start. I think they are probably the most educated company out there so far with performance parts for this bike.
Also, took mine out to Lake Elsinore MX track and ran on the race track and the thing f**king rips!!! To my suprise, there were about 6 other guys there on the same bikes going HUGE! Glad to be a happy owner. :shock:

 

[ZUKRACER17]

thanks

its an r450 honda is a 450r haha not to be picky anyway did they say anything about the race fuel hurting the fuel pump and the injectors? there are rumors goin around sayin race fuel hurts the fuel pump ? thanks alot for the info 8)

 

[Speed]

Is it just the oxygenated fuel thats doing that or is it regular 110 that you get from Shell, BP and such?

 

[Baracudaaa]

I stand corrected, R450... They were referring to the 94 oct. AMA approved race gas, but i am going to stumble over to their shop and double check.

 

[ZukiLT-R450]

The Burning Question??

OK!! I am asking this because I don't want to waste my money on strait RACE GAS!! the LTR has a compression ratio of 11.7 to 1.. Now can anyone tell me the max octaine needed to best fit this situation.. I know that with this set up there is a limit before your just wasting your denero.. I currently have been running a 50/50 mix of 91 premium and 100 VP.. wich should be around 95.5 right???? I have the cherry bomb, full Yosh RS-5 with sparky gone and the airbox lid gone.. still useing the stock filter because I think it is basically as good as any foam 2-stage filter out there.. I am scared that I might be a bit too lean with this set up.. my LTR backfires a bit on the engine brakes.. sounds bad as all.. and runs very strong...
so if someone can answer me the burning question I'd greatly appreciate it... hopefully with in a few weeks the Yosh ECM kit will finally be available so I can stop worrying!!! so HELP!!! what octaine is the max for the stock compression??????????????

 

[Aceltr]

Heres a big thread on this exact topic. Sorry if its against the rules to post links to other forums, this is just a thread that completly covers this topic...sorta.

CLICK

 

[ZUKRACER17]

im runnin sunoco 94 its seems to be the best around here to run . im not sure tho

 

[jfarrar30]

i am running a full yosh lid off 50/50 mix of c12 and 93 octane pump gas.this is what my plug looks like.nit to shabby.i know at an idle im way lean but through the majority if the powerband its good to go.i believe it to be lean way up top just ben trying not to rev it to the moon till the programmer gets here.one thing i didnt think of is when i first installed the sytem i did use a oxygenated fuel.iwas lean everywhere then.been cool since i been running the c12.the oxy fuel is whats killing the fuel systems c12 will be fine or any non oxy fuel

 

[Baracudaaa]

I think Yoshi was recommending fuel in the area of 94-95 oct. I am not 100% sure, I havnt had time to go over to their office today and ask.
Isnt C12 leaded fuel? I might be wrong, but doesnt leaded fuel damage the head and valve rings in a 4 stroke? its just something I keep hearing from people. They say pros can run it b-cos they can put a new head on every race, but to the average rider trying to make their quad last a while the C12 will ruin it fast. Just something I keep hearing, dont know if its true.
I am just mixing 110VP with 91 Premium and it seems to be keeping me good.

 

[Speed]

Leaded fuel is actually good for 4 strokes, aslong as they don't use an o2 sensor or catlytic(spelling?) converter. The lead lubricates the valve guides and other top end components.

 

[heloswmr]

I'm not very knowledgeable about the subject, but isn't there a power commander or some other in line computer that can remap for you? When I go to get an exhaust I would like to know so I am trying to keep up with this. What about the trinity system that you can buy the module for?

 

[usedtobeadmin]

Originally posted by heloswmr
I'm not very knowledgeable about the subject, but isn't there a power commander or some other in line computer that can remap for you? When I go to get an exhaust I would like to know so I am trying to keep up with this. What about the trinity system that you can buy the module for?

If you buy an exhaust all you will need is a cherry bomb.

The trinity thing doesn't seem to be working all that great as of now.

 

[SandJunkie]

LTR is correct...straight from Trinity...the CRBM is a little lean down low (idle) but is just fine at full throttle. It seems that the Trinity programmer was in need of re-programming. They put in a new one for me and I guess anyone else that has one and has run a CRBM must send theirs in for a re-programmed one. Was it a waste of money?...in my point of view? No...I learned a heck of alot about my bike, fuel injection and all. BUT..the point being that your gonna be ok with just a CRBM...sorry about getting off the topic...

 

[quad_runner]

IMO higher octane fuels will NOT richen the A/F mixture, however it will help with engine detonation. Just because the engine is a 11.7:1 compression doesn't necessarily mean you don't need high octane. Altitude and ignition timing also play a part.

 

[LTurboR450]

Originally posted by quad_runner
IMO higher octane fuels will NOT richen the A/F mixture, however it will help with engine detonation. Just because the engine is a 11.7:1 compression doesn't necessarily mean you don't need high octane.  Altitude and ignition timing also play a part.

your opinion is really quite correct, and thats not just my opinion. it is a fact that higher octane fuels or any kind of race fuel will NOT help with lean conditions, nor will it change the A/F ratio at all. higher octane fuels and race fuels are designed for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, to be harder to burn so as to prevent detonation at higher combustion chamber pressures. if you are not detonating, there is no need for high octane race fuels. i am currently running just your run of the mill 93 octane (usually exon or sunoco, they are cheapest around here by 5 cents or more) straight out of the pump, and it has been 60-70 degrees the last 2 weeks and colder durring night riding (something i do often) and i have had NO problems at all. my R450 has a CB, full Yosh RS-5 exhaust with sparky removed, and air lid removed.


some more facts about fuel. the octane rating in fuel has NOTHING to do with oxygen. higher octane fuel and race fuel will NOT produce more power by itself, it is actually HARDER to burn than lower octane fuels and will actually make you LOSE power if you dont have enough compression+ignition to burn it (not a problem with the r450) it simply allows for higher compression/more boost without detonation, which in turn make more power themselves. oxygenated race fuel is very BAD for your r450 unless you have the capabilities to tune your fuel system for it, if not you will run VERY lean and probably damage your engine eventually (or instantly). leaded fuels really can cause more harm than good on todays engines and not just because of the o2 and cat, you really can damage the valvetrain with leaded fuels, todays engines are not designed to cope with the lead. titanium valved engines especially have problems (so i have heared from many respectable sources anyway, i dont know for sure if titanium valves make any difference, good or bad)

and while we are on the subject of fuels, octane boosters...... know that the "octane points" (your octane booster will say "increases octane by this many points") are not the same as the "octane number" (which is the actually octane number like the ones on the pump, 86,89,91,93,ect...) the octane points actually add up to more than the octane number. as an example we will say your standard lucas octane booster raises your octane by 10 points, than it only raises your octane number by 1-2 (from say 91 to 92-93) i dont know the exact ratio of points to numbers, but just to get the point across that dumping octane booster that raises your octane by 10 points into your tank is not gonna raise your octane from 91 to 101, its not even gonna be close

 

[onemeanZ]

Not saying its true but some guys around here said that leaded fuels eat titanium valve componets. Anyone else ever hear that?

 

[Baracudaaa]

I also heard that leaded fuel leaves bad deposits in the head, especially around the valves. I dont have any research data, but that is just a rumor I keep hearing.

 

[tlronny]

So there !

 

[LTurboR450]

Originally posted by onemeanZ
Not saying its true but some guys around here said that leaded fuels eat titanium valve componets. Anyone else ever hear that?

you must have missed my last post on the 1st page of this topic lol


anyway, i have heared from my former instructors at Wyotech, PowerHouse Performance and the guys at SlowBoy Racing, not to mention random people throught my time in the business, that leaded fuels really reek havoc on titanium valves, something along the lines of the lead sticking to the valves and blocking them from closing all the way/siezing them up in the head/physically deteriorate the valves, very quickly. this is something i have never personally experienced due to the fact that i have never used leaded fuels, but i think my sources speak enough for me

 

[quad_runner]

Originally posted by LTurboR450+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LTurboR450)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-quad_runner

IMO higher octane fuels will NOT richen the A/F mixture, however it will help with engine detonation. Just because the engine is a 11.7:1 compression doesn't necessarily mean you don't need high octane.  Altitude and ignition timing also play a part.

your opinion is really quite correct, and thats not just my opinion. it is a fact that higher octane fuels or any kind of race fuel will NOT help with lean conditions, nor will it change the A/F ratio at all. higher octane fuels and race fuels are designed for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, to be harder to burn so as to prevent detonation at higher combustion chamber pressures. if you are not detonating, there is no need for high octane race fuels. i am currently running just your run of the mill 93 octane (usually exon or sunoco, they are cheapest around here by 5 cents or more) straight out of the pump, and it has been 60-70 degrees the last 2 weeks and colder durring night riding (something i do often) and i have had NO problems at all. my R450 has a CB, full Yosh RS-5 exhaust with sparky removed, and air lid removed.


some more facts about fuel. the octane rating in fuel has NOTHING to do with oxygen. higher octane fuel and race fuel will NOT produce more power by itself, it is actually HARDER to burn than lower octane fuels and will actually make you LOSE power if you dont have enough compression+ignition to burn it (not a problem with the r450) it simply allows for higher compression/more boost without detonation, which in turn make more power themselves. oxygenated race fuel is very BAD for your r450 unless you have the capabilities to tune your fuel system for it, if not you will run VERY lean and probably damage your engine eventually (or instantly). leaded fuels really can cause more harm than good on todays engines and not just because of the o2 and cat, you really can damage the valvetrain with leaded fuels, todays engines are not designed to cope with the lead. titanium valved engines especially have problems (so i have heared from many respectable sources anyway, i dont know for sure if titanium valves make any difference, good or bad)

and while we are on the subject of fuels, octane boosters...... know that the "octane points" (your octane booster will say "increases octane by this many points") are not the same as the "octane number" (which is the actually octane number like the ones on the pump, 86,89,91,93,ect...) the octane points actually add up to more than the octane number. as an example we will say your standard lucas octane booster raises your octane by 10 points, than it only raises your octane number by 1-2 (from say 91 to 92-93) i dont know the exact ratio of points to numbers, but just to get the point across that dumping octane booster that raises your octane by 10 points into your tank is not gonna raise your octane from 91 to 101, its not even gonna be close[/b]

Nice explanation... :arrow: