[Rich S]

Well let me start off with a huge thanks to Rob for letting me borrow his tires!

We had some night time drags out at lil sahara this past weekend. For a quick run down on the location.... We arived on Saturday afternoon and the sand was nice and dry. There were a ton of very fast 4strokes and none of them were suzuki's <_<

Long story short, 7 paddle haulers do not have the same "bite" as 6 paddle extremes. Almost every vendor I talked to said they would be very similar. The 7's were consistantly the faster tire on the short and long drags. And when I rode the 7's the gap was even larger.... up to a 3 bike lead.


Details:
7 paddle Haulers 21 x 12 x 8 (67" rollout)on 8x8 douglas blue labels

vs.

6 paddle Extreme Haulers 21 x 12 x 8 (66.5" roll out) on 7x8 douglas blue labels (the 7" wheel is lighter and make the tire a little taller. The tires were sold as a 66+ roll out).


I verified and measured roll out to be accurate @ 4psi. And the tires were run @ 4psi.

Okc-LTR (Alan) ran my 7 paddle haulers and I ran Robs 6 paddle extremes (I like to be faster)
Both of our bikes are BPU (Basic Power Upgrades.... no lid, crbm, no sparky)

The first few races where Alan was getting used to my haulers, I pretty much murdered him cause he kept bogging out of the hole.

However, once he got the holeshot down by sitting in the middle of the seat (leaning slightly foward) and launching at 3/4 throttle or more. He would not only beat me at the 1 - 2 shift but he would start pulling away. Then by the 2 - 3 shift he'd be about 1 or more bike lengths ahead and stay there....... but I think he was shifting too soon.

When I rode his bike and we compared again.... I'd hold out longer like I do on my bike and I'd put upto 3 bikes on him (Alan riding my bike). We had a mean to work off of.... bill ballance yfz450 with gytr gear and pipe. We consistantly beat him time and time again. But when I rode the 7's I could put a few more bike lenghts on them.



Now our bike stacked up against other 4strokes runnin 8+ paddles..... it was no contest... we were getting flat out murdered.

There was a guy out there with a 450R and modlist similar to robs but he was running an 8 paddle extreme..... He was hanging side by side with alcohol bikes :scoot:

So for now, I'm keeping my 7 paddle haulers till I get to meet up with Rob again and try them against his Brats and Sand Skate I's.


+'s about the 6's. They come out of the hole easier. And they slide a lil easier with less body english than was required with the 7's.


So the next test will have to be up some hills...... West coast guys just let me know when and where to send them if you need a set to test out.


-Rich

 

[onesavage]

very cool. thanks. cant wait to hear when you test some more tires.

now is his quad white and is yours yellow? :lol:

 

[Rich S]

very cool. thanks. cant wait to hear when you test some more tires.

now is his quad white and is yours yellow? :lol:
[/b]

ha ha ha sorry, but..... no I let down the whites by giving him my tires to use.

We had the same results in both wet and dry sand. LS doesn't have real tall dunes, so out here there was absolutely no difference in climbing.

But I did whoop up on him in the trails.... he kept saying he was hanging with me.... but every so often I'd flat out stop and wait about 10 seconds for him to catch up ha ha ha ha

 

[OKC-LTR]

MUAHAHAH...Liar...you hanged with your ass the whole time...i just didnt wannna leave George back their...

As for the paddles. I rode both sets. I felt i came out of the whole pretty good with the 6 paddles and it was really smooth. When i ran the 7 paddles i was coming out like a bat outta hell. I was wheeling it and shifting into 2nd before i could let her down ahahahah...When we lines up withthe Ballance YFZ, i just murdered it straight nasty along with WHT 180's WHITE Slow ass LTR hahaah...

YES...The YELLOW was the winner.

Ill be buying some new paddles here shortly and just use the Sand Stars for backups or whatever. I would like to try an 8 paddle and see where i stand now.

 

[OKTRX450R]

Great report Rich!!!

We need to throw the Glidders and Brats in the mix now!

In my own playing around the Brats do not seem to be too much of an advantage at LS...where they really seemed to shine was on the longer hills of Glamis where I could catch and pass some folks half way up the hill. I think the longest I have raced at LS was 300' and it was flat not up a hill where the less drag (weight) really pays off...racing other TRX's at LS I will just start really closing the gap and the race will be over. Part of it is my setup on my TRX as it is top end biased. I am thinking about putting in another cam before Sept.

I am really interested in some 21X12X8 10 Paddle Glidders...in theory should get you out of the hole pretty well and be comparable to a 7-8 paddle hauler on top.

I PM'ed Jim on PS back the day we talked about it on here in the other thread (3 weeks ago or so) and I left a message on the answering machine at his shop...still no answer so I guess I will give Joe a call. Jim seems like a nice guy but I guess he is just not interested in selling this type of tire.

 

[fatv]

I think the problem with the extreme is that the cup doed not flexx as much. This will make the paddle dig more and create drag. Quick question ...... did you guys ever race with the same tires on both bikes? One bike has to faster then the other even with idential setups. Did you do dead stop starts everytime? I would think the 6 cup should be faster on the top end but not as good out of the hole? When jim and i tested we also did rolling starts. This eliminated the hole shot factor. Great report .....


FUELATV

 

[Vader]

Nice write-up. Your testing validates what most people agree on more paddle in the flats for the short drags. Now if you ran them on the longer hills I'd bet it would be the other way around. The Brats are an awesome hill paddle, and they dune pretty well too (in Glamis) - but I'm not sure about how well they do on flat drags. Regular-sized paddles always require a compromise - flat or hill / short run or long run. The Gliders may be the best of both worlds....

 

[fatv]

so what gear are you in at the end of the races there?


FUELATV

 

[OKC-LTR]

Usually 3rd or 4th...Depends and how far we go...I rev it out to the max usually

 

[Rich S]

Usually 3rd or 4th...Depends and how far we go...I rev it out to the max usually
[/b]

yeah we basicly ran three different tracks. Two were long enough to top out 4th. And once the 7's were out in front, they stayed there.

The six's spun great all the way to red line and that actually caused me to shift a lil sooner but they never bogged the motor at all.

I agree, on a long hill like Olds, they would definately shine and more than likely come out on top.... But there is only one way to prove that.

I know that on my 7's going up olds I was only pulling about mid revs in 3rd.


With a pipe, filter, and fueling..... the 7's might be the better way to go.

I'd like to try a set of 8's and find a sweet spot.


But now its time to start saving for an exhaust.

 

[fatv]

Not to derail this , but my bike now with stock gearing and 9 cup 20x10x8 glidders revs out 3rd mid hill at OLDS. then it will pull 4th, but not hard enough. So now i am in a delema .... go up one or two in the rear to pull 4th or go up one in the front and pull 3rD longer? I dont want to go up in the rear and lose the top end. So we will see.


FUELATV

 

[Clone]

Not to derail this , but my bike now with stock gearing and 9 cup 20x10x8 glidders revs out 3rd mid hill at OLDS. then it will pull 4th, but not hard enough. So now i am in a delema .... go up one or two in the rear to pull 4th or go up one in the front and pull 3rD longer? I dont want to go up in the rear and lose the top end. So we will see.
FUELATV
[/b]

What gear are you starting in and how are your holeshots? That would probably dictate which way I would go with the gearing.

 

[OKTRX450R]

Not to derail this , but my bike now with stock gearing and 9 cup 20x10x8 glidders revs out 3rd mid hill at OLDS. then it will pull 4th, but not hard enough. So now i am in a delema .... go up one or two in the rear to pull 4th or go up one in the front and pull 3rD longer? I dont want to go up in the rear and lose the top end. So we will see.
FUELATV
[/b]

Quite the dilemma...what is the difference in gearing lower to pull fourth or gearing higher to pull third? Is there a difference in ETs?

Seems in the TRX world the general consensus is to launch in 2nd and pull 4th to the top...To do this on my bike I would have to go to 13/40 gearing...well, I cut my chain too short and could only fit 13/39 gearing...I really did not like that setup and I went back to 13/38. I could beat some other running in third while there were in fourth with the deeper screws...so who knows. 13/38 is my personal duning setup so I was happy staying with that. 13/40 IMO would not be a good duning setup for myself...so there you have it, gear for the hill or gear for the dunes?

I think that last trip to Glamis I changed gearing at least 7 times trying to find a sweet spot...you can get pretty fast at it!

 

[OKTRX450R]

Playing with the quad calc...I say go up 2 in the rear and give it a try...just really all depends if you can pull 4th hard with that combo and do a hard 2nd gear launch.
[attachmentid=1365]

 

[fatv]

I am starting in 1st now. It wont quite pull 2nd gear start. I think i will ride the bike again with the intake and air box mod and stock gears. Maybe the 2 or so extra hp will get me a 2nd gear start and pull 4th. If not i will go up one tooth at a time. For me the gearing now is perfect for the dunes and high speed runs down sand highway. I hate to lose some of that top speed, but we will see. I guess i will be ordering a 37 and 38 rear sprocket.


FUELATV

 

[Bad Habit]

I'd like to try a set of 8's and find a sweet spot.
But now its time to start saving for an exhaust.
[/b]

Just for giggles, I'll bring my set of 21x12x8 (old carcass) 8 paddle haulers down to LS next month. They're very old and the paddles are a little shorter than a new set, but you're welcome to try them out on the strip.

 

[Rich S]

Just for giggles, I'll bring my set of 21x12x8 (old carcass) 8 paddle haulers down to LS next month. They're very old and the paddles are a little shorter than a new set, but you're welcome to try them out on the strip.
[/b]

sweet I'll take you up on that offer.


Fuel - What is the roll out on those 20" gliders?

 

[fatv]

Its funny you ask. The 6 cup haulers and 9 cup glidders both had 65 written on the tire, but the 6 cup hauler is taller no question. Both tires are 20x10x8. I will have to measure them both.


FUELATV

 

[Rich S]

Its funny you ask. The 6 cup haulers and 9 cup glidders both had 65 written on the tire, but the 6 cup hauler is taller no question. Both tires are 20x10x8. I will have to measure them both.
FUELATV
[/b]

yeah I kinda noticed that too with my daughters gliders.... they sit a lil shorter than normal. Maybe they measured it at 20psi :lol:

Thats why I like small shops that buy them in bulk.... they usually tend to match them up by actual roll out.... unlike some of those mail order places that don't give a darn.

 

[Vader]

Its funny you ask. The 6 cup haulers and 9 cup glidders both had 65 written on the tire, but the 6 cup hauler is taller no question. Both tires are 20x10x8. I will have to measure them both.
FUELATV
[/b]

Great point. I always measure the tire carcass height at my running tire PSI x Pi, because the chalked Rollouts on haulers are not accurate. A friend has a 69 R/O hauler that was the actual same size as my measured 67 R/O hauler. I would also want to gear for 4th gear pull at the top of the hill and 2nd gear starts, but thats on a TRX. I like the 21" haulers with a measured rollout of no more than 67 R/O for all-around duning. My Brats are 65 R/O - they are an awesome on the hill and dune well well too.