Sand Tire Question's - Suzuki LT-R450 Forum ::
Wheels/Tires A perfect tire/wheel combination is a necessity, discuss tires and wheels here

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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Sand Tire Question's

I just ordered 20x10x11 Sand Star paddles for my LTR. I also order front tires to match. They asked me if I wanted 21" or 22" tires up front and I was not sure. I had them order 21" for the front but I figured I should ask to see what peoples opinions were. I can still change my order. I don't plan on too much drag racing so I opted for Sand Stars instead of Haulers so that turning would be easier.

My question is, did I make the right choice for tire sizes? From what I have read the stock gearing will probably be OK. Is that the case?

Any comments would be helpful.

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 10:55 AM
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I see you are in So Cal so I assume you ride know how the sand around Olds differs from the sand around China Wall? The southern sand is much softer and deeper...the taller (normally wider too) front tire will allow more floatation or weight displacement in the sand allowing you to motor along easier and with more control. IMO the taller/wider fronts are much better.

Now, no offense intended but IMO the Sand Stars are among the worst sand tires available...I know I will get bashed into the ground for this, but it is simply the truth. I will agree they turn good and will probably last longer then the quad...and that is pretty much all I can say good about them. Really does not have anything to do with drag only riding...if you push the thumb throttle at all you will experience the loss in performance. If you are interested in turning opt for some Skat Trak Edges...if you have money to spend call up Fullerton and order some Sand Skate I Comp Cuts...

We have removed the Sand Stars from our daughter's Predator 90 even! Our 21" SSI CCs actually weigh quite a bit less then the 18" Stars we had on the 90!

Even my wife will no longer run Stars...very emphatically stated by her I might add...
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 11:12 AM
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Sand Stars are extremely heavy! I originally had the on my YFZ but after using them once I wasn't impressed. I took them off and then weighed them and then weighed my friends Skat Trak Mohawks and Haulers and there was big difference in wieght. The Skat Traks were much light and so I bought them and had no complaints what so ever. I just put the same Skat Traks on my new LTR and couldn't be happier. Remember people, less weight = more horsepower (especially on any part that drives the rear tires).

And for all you people who like those ITP C-Sport rims (yeah, they look great in Black), they weight a little more than a pound each more than the Douglas Sand Shamrocks and almost a pound and a half more than a standard blue label rim. Thats a lot of horse robbing power!
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 02:00 PM
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I'm running 20x10x10 AMS Sandsnakes on douglas .125 rear, and 21x7x10 AMS Diamond traks on douglas .125 front!! so far so good.. my wife has the sandstars for her KFX on douglas .125 and for her they work great but are heavier than my sand snakes.. of coarse the paddles are alot taller too!! I'd love to have some ITP C's but I chose not to get them because of the weight..
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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OK, I guess I need to rethink things because they were coming on the ITP rims.. So it sounds like I should ditch the vpaddles and maybe even the rims... I was ordering them on a 10" rim but was told that an 8 would be stronger and a better way to go. I understand the whole "less weight = more power" idea and so I should but accordingly. I would even be willing to ditch the v paddle idea at this point. I am sure turning it even with a hauler on would not be a problem and thus maybe I should just forget the V's. .

So now I am totally confused. What is going to be the best all around paddle/tire combo? I guess I had better call my dealer and make sure they don't special order anything yet.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 06:44 PM
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Slief, I do not know what kind of $$ you want to spend so I will run a few scenarios for you.
Let's work with a few assumptions...
Lighter is always better and usually costs more.
a 10" diameter rim will slide better then an 8" rim but not be as fast for the same reason.
More paddles dune better but will also be slower then less paddles.
All suggestions below are on Douglas .125 rims...
Prices include rims and are guesstimates but should be pretty close.
I use Joe at Fullerton for all my tire purchases and several of the below tires you can only get from him...great guy and I have been buying tires from him since 1988.

Drag combo:
STU Paddla Brats 21X12X8 6 paddle $470
Skat Trak Mowhawks 21X7X10 $170
STU Razorbacks 22X8X10 $220

Best turning/duning tire:
STU Sand Skate I Comp Cut 21X12X10 $430
STU Razorbacks 22X8X10 $220

Do all everywhere combo:
Tebo cut 22X14X10 $475
Razorbac 22X8X10 $220
The Tebos do not accelerate as fast as the brats and do not turn as good as the skates...right in the middle.

Now, for money savings and some performance loss insert the same size hauler in a 7 paddle in place of the brats, or an Extreme in a 6 paddle...insert the Edge in an 8 paddle in place of the skates...there is no other option for the Tebo. Another possible money savings on the front insert the AMS Diamondtracks $170 in the same size as the razors...good tires and work very well but are heavier.

Good Luck!!!
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 08:40 PM
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I bought sandstars cause they looked cool. And the mags raved about them.

The next rubber I buy will more than likely be 20x10x10 8 paddle haulers or extremes.... to just try them out.

Rob and I had a similar problem. His daughter ran sand stars and mine ran Geckos. Both pretty much had the same problem...... not able to climb..... Both 90's are the same and as with all lil stock bikes the tire issues are easily noticed.

This first vid is of my daughter with a "molded" set of Geckos:

This one is recently with a set of Skat trak Glider 6 paddles on the same hill:

that difference really made me lean toward a buffed lightweight tire for my next set. So maybe this summer or next year, I'll get another set for my LTR.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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You mention Comp Cut or Tebo cut. What are the different cuts? Are teh Sand Skate II's worth considering? I am all for lighter and I guess $$ is not too much of an issue but it would be nice to not go broke doing it.. I think it is going to end up being too late for that!

It sound like I should be getting 22x10x8 STU razorbacks for the front?
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 08:52 PM
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I had sand star's before and I liked them alot. I don't really drag though so I didn't race much. I am going with haulers this time though. I want to go fast.


Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. The other half is shutting the [email protected]#! up.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-19-2006, 09:15 PM
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Joe basically takes a perfectly good STU (Sand Tires Unlimited) tire and grooves it...
You have play cut which is X amount of rubber (weight) removed
Then you have comp cut with is 2*X amount of rubber removed...comp cuts are very light.

The Tebo groove is something all together different...looks like a paddle on the left going from left to right a little more then half the tire...then one on the right, then left, etc. I am sure you have seen this type of paddle on dune buggies.

Brat is a straight paddle all the way across.
Skate is a V blade design.
Then Tebo is all together will get many odd looks running these tires and many people wanting to check them out.
All of the above tires are available uncut, play cut, and comp cut.

Skat Trak has the same sort of options and once again the lighter the more expensive...
Standard buff...remove X amount of rubber.
Bead to Bead buff 2*X amount of rubber and goes from bead to bead.
Ultralight, 3*X rubber removed and very, light...similiar to the comp cut STU tires.

Keep in mind STU tires are 4 ply and Skats are 2 even with the comp cut grooving the tire is lighter but still retains more plies then a comparable Skat tire...but, the skats are about 60% the price of the STU tires so keep that in mind.

All the front tires will be on a 10" diameter rim...don't worry about it and running .125 wheels as you still have 6" of rubber between the rim and impact.

We first purchased Stars for my wife's Raptor she had in the past...I thought they would be a cheap easy to ride solution for her...same with the kids Predator was I wrong! At first she did not know any better and thought the tires were fine...when I rode the Raptor I hated them and thought they could not be the only problem and I began tearing into the bike and upgrading...still horrible performance. Finally crawled up in the attic and unwrapped an old set of Haulers and mounted them up...WOW, like a brand new bike. She rode them and said she never wanted to see the Stars again! When we ordered the LTR for her the first comment, err, second comment was that she did not want Sand Stars! My wife has only been riding since December 04 and if she can tell that much difference in just the tires then I know it is not just myself!!! After watching the performance of the kids on the 90 the Gliders were on order and arrived too late for our last trip. But they are on now and we are anxious to watch the kids in action.

Skate II's are OK tires...still a molded heavy tire and uncut. I still have a set in the attic but have not ran them in years...personally I did not like them that much. They have a very tall blade and get very good traction but I think they have very odd sliding characteristics and I just could not get used to them. Of course that was in the past and we rode quite a bit faster then...have not tried them since I have gotten so old and slow!

For most folks that really do not know, I would say go with the Skate I comp cut tires and you will be very happy. They are the best handling tire for all around duning and still shoot the hill very fast. If you lean more toward shooting the hill go for the 8" rim diameter and if you lean more toward overall duning go with the 10" diameter wheel. The razorbacks are new to me as I have been running the skat mowhawks mostly for racing...I ran razors back in the late 80's and they are an excellent handling tire. We purchased the AMS tires for the wife's LTR and I tried them on the Honda last trip to Glamis and they handled very well...but, I bolted up a set of buddies razors (my old ones are dead) and I think they handle slightly better...enough to warrant the extra money for me. My new set is currently mounted on the Honda...I will switch them around and let the wife try them on the LTR too and let you know what she thinks.

Rich, you are more then welcome to try out some of our other tire combos...we are heading back out March 31-April 2.

I do not currently own any Tebo cuts but I did get to run a set for a few days in January and I was very impressed with them. I have some friends very heavy into tires (58 sets last count) and they work closely with Fullerton on tire development...also Joe is such a wonderful guy and he will walk you through your tire purchase. The next set of tires we purchase will be the Tebo's and I will retire the brats to grudge matches! Our biggest problem is we just have no way to really carry very many extra sets of tires to the where to put them with myself, wife, 3 kids, and both my parents!
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